Habits of Influence

Cracking the PR Code: Leveraging Public Relations for Brand Success with Dina Behrman

• Magdalena Hanah • Season 2 • Episode 27

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Ever wondered why your business isn’t getting the visibility it deserves? Perhaps you're mystified by the power of public relations and how to leverage it for your brand's success. Sit tight, as we crack the PR code with Dina Behrman, a former journalist and ace PR strategist. We're peeling back the layers of misconception, shedding light on the common pitfalls, and providing a blueprint to navigate the often murky waters of public relations.

Don't mistake PR for another form of marketing! Dina helps us differentiate, emphasizing PR as an evergreen credibility booster. She takes us for a walk on the wild side, unveiling the 'pay to play' culture, a shady practice that often clouds the PR landscape. But fear not, Dina also points us toward the sunnier path of providing value to journalists, securing free publicity, and gaining authentic coverage that doesn’t require you to break the bank or hire an outside PR firm.

The episode culminates with Dina’s masterclass on the art of storytelling, the secret sauce for successful public relations. We explore the power of sharing your narrative through different mediums, from authoring a book to getting featured on podcasts. And for those who've struggled to craft their story, Dina offers a lifeline, demonstrating how to engage your audience without resorting to near-death experiences! Listen up as we learn the ropes of PR strategy, publishing, and campaign management, with Dina's free PR checklist as your ultimate guide. Tune in, and let's make some PR magic together!

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To connect with Dina, go to:

Free PR Masterclass & Workbook "3 Secrets To Easily Land Impactful Publicity That Positions You As An Expert & Attracts Perfect-Fit Clients": 

https://dinabehrman.com/3-secrets-masterclass/

The PR checklist: https://dinabehrman.com/pr-checklist/

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You can always send us your feedback, and/or episode topic requests to: habitsofinfluence@gmail.com!

Magdalena Hanah:

Have you ever wondered why some people seem to have this magnetic way of gaining visibility on social media, in the press and amongst their peers, whilst others seem to be virtually fighting for a pinch of attention?

Magdalena Hanah:

The to to people's people's fame may be a result of different things, one of which definitely a great PR strategy. But, as with everything else, diving deep into PR, which is an abbreviation for public relations, we seem to find many half-truths and even scams, that leave you not only far away from the recognition you thought you'd get, but also with shattered dreams of ever blowing up your business and authority. Today, I'll be sitting down with Dina Behrman, a former journalist turned PR strategist and publisher, whose mission is to inspire millions to harness the power of PR, skyrocket their visibility, and start attracting soulmate clients into their business. We'll be drawing on Dina's decade of experience as a journalist and diving deep into how you can use PR to your advantage, navigate the misconceptions, and keep yourself safe from online scams, all without hiring an overpriced PR firm. Welcome, or welcome back to Habits of Influence, a podcast where we discuss the good, the bad and the ugly sides of entrepreneurship, and teach you how to become a person others wish to follow. Thank you for having me.

Dina Behrman:

Thank you so much for having me Very excited to be here Long overdue.

Magdalena Hanah:

I was so excited for this conversation. PR is one of the things I'm super excited about, so I'm looking forward to finding out a lot of things from you.

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, definitely.

Magdalena Hanah:

So, Dina, you have been somebody who's been featured in massive publications, and I mean Forbes, Entrepreneur, Huff Post, among others, Radio Appearances so you have got a lot of experience in PR, with media, with the whole world, from behind the scenes as well a decade being a journalist. Could you please tell a little bit to our listeners, and to me, what made you change and drop the journalist path and go into publishing and into PR strategy?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, so, like you say, I did journalism rather for about 10 years and I ended up kind of starting a side hustle because I had worked in-house at different publications and then I had gone freelance and as a freelancer you know, I think anyone who's freelanced before you end up looking for ways to diversify.

Dina Behrman:

So I had this kind of side hustle doing PR and copywriting. And then it was after I had my eldest daughter, she's nine, so I had taken a bit of time out after having her and then come back to work, and I just was really thinking about what my priorities are and where I want my focus to be, and I realized that, you know, doing the journalism had been amazing and I'd had so many incredible experiences, but I was really ready to go all in on my business, and so I decided to transition into making my business my full-time thing, and at that point I decided to kind of rebrand and relaunch myself, and I had been getting to know different business owners in the online space and I'd seen that there was a bit of a gap in the market for people that weren't ready to hire a PR agency yet but they wanted to get publicity, and so I started focusing on teaching entrepreneurs how to do their own PR.

Magdalena Hanah:

Fantastic! Thank you for sharing. And this actually is a great segway to my next question, because you've mentioned when they are not ready to hire a big-time PR firm. And we know a lot of times when we think of PR, we kind of think about public figures, right, Somebody who's already famous, somebody who's already out there. They hire a PR firm to kind of showcase their expertise a bit more, to get them gigs, whether it is speaking or just interviews and newspapers, magazines, glossy magazines, right? And it couldn't be further from the truth. Because when would you say is the right time to actually start PR? It's not a case that you need to first become famous and then, all of a sudden, you know everybody's knocking on your door. You should start that way way earlier. What do you think about that? And could you speak about when's the right time to actually start thinking about your PR, about your appearances, and about your strategy?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, no, you make such a great point because so many people that I speak to they don't even really consider PR as a way to market their business and, like you say, they think that it's for people that are more well-established, that have like really huge followings, that are super, super experienced.

Dina Behrman:

And actually, PR I would say if you're brand new in business and you don't know who you're ideal client is and you don't know what you're selling, then probably you're not going to get the most out of PR.

Dina Behrman:

But beyond that, if you have been in business for you know six months to a year or more and you know who your ideal client is and you know what you're selling, you have an offer that you're selling, then you can really really benefit from PR.

Dina Behrman:

Because what I love about PR is that it allows you to tap into other people's ready-made audiences.

Dina Behrman:

And so if you're struggling to think how PR would be relevant to you and if you're thinking maybe it sounds corporate or maybe it just sounds like something that is for famous people or entrepreneurs that are already super-established, then if you start to think about, well, you know what would it be like to get in front of a ready-made audience if you were to appear on a radio show or a podcast show or in a publication where that media outlet has already built up that audience and you have done it in a really strategic way. So you have picked a media outlet where the audience is full of your ideal clients and you can go and get yourself in front of those people and you can share content that really speaks to that ideal client you know in an interview or in an article, and so what it is, whatever stage of business you're at, is a way for you to get in front of more of your ideal clients and speak to more of the people that you're here to serve.

Magdalena Hanah:

That is fantastic and I think it kind of takes away a lot of those thoughts that people have: "Am I good enough, am I ready for this? Am I, you know, well-known enough? Which, like I said, it's not the case it's. What you do need to know is well, first of all, what you want to represent, right as a person, as a brand, as a message, what is your offer? Who are those right people? Because I think a lot of the times we find ourselves or a lot of entrepreneurs, business owners, small business owners kind of confused about. You've mentioned, for example, unow k o y, y k yat o,youknow, you know, k k yand k p u showing at people's podcasts, and I think what people do not realize is they kind of hear this little thing of like oh, you need to show up on podcasts, or you need to do interviews, or you need to do this, but they are not choosing with which interviews, which podcasts, which shows they are actually choosing because they're not entirely, maybe, sure who their audience is. What do you think about that?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, I mean I think that if anyone is listening and maybe you've attempted PR in some way before maybe you've been on a podcast, maybe you've written a guest article and it's not done anything for your business, it's not, you've not seen any of the results from it, it's not moved the needle in your business, Then that's probably because you weren't doing it with enough strategy. So when I work with clients, I'm all about helping them to do PR in a very intentional way and in a very strategic way so that they're not wasting their time and so that they can actually see a return on investment in terms of the time and energy that they're putting into it. And so if you don't have that intention behind what you're doing and you don't have that strategy and sometimes you'll see people whether it is just sort of applying for podcasts but not really having the strategy there, or even maybe having a press release and just firing it off to loads of people and just hoping for the best in doing that. I've heard people call it the spray and pray technique when it comes to marketing, where you're just kind of like throwing stuff around and crossing your fingers and hoping that it works. That will be why you haven't seen the results that you want with PR.

Dina Behrman:

So when you do it in a strategic way and when you are very intentional about making sure that number one you are targeting the media outlets that are going to give you the results that you want, the media outlets that are going to get you in front of more of your ideal clients, the media outlets that are going to help you to hit your goals with PR, and then also making sure that you are sharing content within your interviews, within your articles, that really speaks to your ideal clients and then having some strategy there in terms of taking those listeners, those readers, those viewers and bringing them into your world. You don't just want to kind of do a podcast or write an article and just leave it there. You want to make sure that you're grabbing onto those people that are listening to you, that are reading to you and inviting them into your world.

Magdalena Hanah:

There you go and that's fantastic, and I think another misconception that came kind o o ame kind mind when you were speaking is that, in essence, pr is very similar to marketing and there are different types of PR, which we're going to talk about in a moment. But it's not the case. Pr is a separate thing and it's completely different to marketing, even though you could class this as a type of marketing, right, it's a type of marketing yourself, that type of acquiring visibility, but what people get wrong as well, and I would like you to talk about the differences and what PR is and what it isn't. So, in your view, how is it different from marketing and why do people get this so wrong?

Dina Behrman:

So I think, like you said, you know, PR is a type of marketing, and I honestly think that it's something that a lot of people just overlook. They just don't even think about it, and they are focused on marketing on social media because that's what a lot of online business owners know, and so that's what they focus on, and they just repeatedly create content and put it out on whatever channel they're on, and for a lot of people, that constitutes their marketing. And so PR lets you have a whole extra way to market your business, where you are getting in front of other people's audiences. So you're not just relying on posting onto your own Instagram or posting onto your own Facebook and hoping that it reaches enough people, but you're actually going out and harnessing other people's readymade audiences. And because of the way that PR works, it's more than just getting in front of people. It's actually a way to position yourself as an expert, to be seen as an authority in your field. It's a really big credibility booster. There are There's many different ways that PR works that you don't get from other types of marketing, especially kind of social media marketing. With social media, you have to worry about the algorithm and beating the algorithm. You don't have that with PR.

Dina Behrman:

With PR, like I say, you have the readymade audience and you can go on a radio show that has 100,000 listeners and they've already built up their audience and they've already created a level of trust.

Dina Behrman:

With that audience. You will have listeners, readers, viewers, that will go back week after week and tune into their favourite publication, whatever it is, and you get to tap into that. And then you've got the fact that PR is evergreen. So once you get featured in the press, it stays on that publication's website, for example, for years to come, and I've had people that will find me years after an article has been published, because when you get featured on a news site, for example, on an online publication, they rank really highly in search rankings.

Dina Behrman:

I'm not an SEO expert, but I do know that if you're typing in search terms and you have written an article or been interviewed on that topic that relates to those search terms, then your article, your interview, is going to come up really high in the search rankings and so that gives you additional opportunities for people to find you months or years after that article, that interview, comes out. And you don't really get that with a lot of social media, which can be very fast moving and can feel sometimes quite disposable. So PR, I think, is a type of marketing, but it just works in a very different way to a lot of the marketing that we're used to otherwise.

Magdalena Hanah:

Right, exactly, and what I would add here even though we've got so many people online nowadays, I think what we forget as business owners quite often is the fact that not neverybody has social media, and also not everybody's on every single platform. So you might tap into audiences that you would never otherwise tap into because they like you are devoted y I said, listeners or readers of a specific topic. So absolutely, those are the targeted people of a publication that already has established their authority and you're kind of like borrowing what they have already done, right?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. You're borrowing it and they have created that no-liking trust factor with their audience. When you look at some of these publications that have been around for many years, they're well established, they have great reputations. They have done that hard work for you building up that kind of relationship building up, you know, the trust is such a big part of it. So people that read those publications or they listen to those podcasts, whatever it is, they will trust the guests that they have onto the show, the experts that they feature in the articles, because they've already built up that level of trust with the publication and it immediately boosts you right as a person that is on that show.

Magdalena Hanah:

If you go to a top 100 podcast, let's say, or if you go to an international or even local TV, it has a response. It has a much bigger response and position you immediately as the expert, as the authority, as somebody who is knowledgeable and should be interviewed on a specific topic, right.

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, 100%. I mean they call it third party endorsement because you are essentially being endorsed by the third party, which is the publication or the journalist or whatever. And so you know, we're so used to, as business owners, having to promote ourselves, but it is so much more powerful to actually have someone else promote us for us. And so when you get featured, say your poetry doesn't expert in a magazine article and they say parenting expert, Joe Smith says, and then you're sharing all your wisdom, Well, you're getting third party endorsement from that magazine because you are seen as someone who is knowledgeable enough to be quoted in that article. So it's a lot more powerful to be promoted by the publication or the media outlet than just promoting yourself, Right?

Magdalena Hanah:

right, and that leads me to kind of like the shady and darker side of it.

Magdalena Hanah:

All.

Magdalena Hanah:

Right, because absolutely I agree with you and that couldn't be more nothing more powerful than being featured on a TV show or radio show, in a magazine, as that expert.

Magdalena Hanah:

But the fact of the matter is, a lot of the times, it's who's got a bigger wallet that is presented as that expert.

Magdalena Hanah:

There's a lot of things that are happening behind the scenes in PR and media which makes people be showcased not based on what they have actually earned but based on the fact that they've paid more money. And we both know there is no secret that some of those magazines and publications I'm talking about the really, really big ones come with a very hefty price tag and they have not much to do with the fact of what you've achieved or who you are or what your expertise or knowledge is. And I think, because this is an actual question from our listeners, a lot of the times, we know that we know a lot, we perceive ourselves as an expert, but we feel the sense of it not being fair that a person that is perhaps less established than us, less knowledgeable than us, is featured in those publications. Could you speak a little bit more about the behind the scenes of how that works, and why is it a case that sometimes those things are prevalent rather than a person's actual expertise and choosing?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, I think this is such a great topic to bring up because I think this is maybe what puts some people off from the idea of PR or help, you know, makes them kind of not understand it. So I have had clients featured in every, virtually every publication that you could kind of think of. So I've had public. I've had clients featured in places like Forbes, entrepreneur magazine, huffington Post, cosmopolitan magazine, marie Claire magazine, like all different newspapers. None of my clients have ever paid to appear in any of those publications ever.

Dina Behrman:

So there is such a thing as pay to play. We call it pay to play within the industry, which is where you pay to get featured, and so you will see this and you may have even I sometimes get these messages on Instagram and they always come from a really random profile with like no followers and probably no picture, and it will say we can feature you in the Yahoo top 50 most successful look out for yes under something like random, but it's normally like a top 20, whatever women, and there's a fee involved, and do you want to know?

Dina Behrman:

So I have had clients in places like I say, like Forbes. I've had clients in places like Yahoo, but they don't pay. And so there are options to do pay to play. And one of the reasons why someone would choose to do pay to play is because it gives them well, I guess it would be guaranteed. And so you have to pay for the coverage, because if you're paying, you know whoever it is that's organizing it, and and then they will have a way that they can get you onto a particular section or something like that, and so that's why people would do that.

Dina Behrman:

Now, I've always been a very I don't know if it's a journalist and me I do my research, and so for me, if I see that someone has been featured and it says you know, sometimes it will say it's an advertising feature, or most publications now legally have to declare if there has been a payment involved with you being featured.

Dina Behrman:

So, for example, there is an option to get into Forbes by joining the Forbes Coaches Council, and that is where you pay a membership fee and you can get featured in Forbes, but the articles will always say on them this is part of the Forbes Coaches Council. So a lot of people will know that there's been a payment involved in terms of you've paid to join the membership and then you get an article included. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. But you, my clients, when they've been featured in Forbes, they haven't paid, they haven't been part of that Coaches Council, they've been featured for free. And so some people will be able to tell the difference, because it's either going to say on it something like Advertorial or Advertising Feature or something on all those lines.

Dina Behrman:

Or it might be that you've been featured, like I say, because you've joined some kind of Coaches Council or something along those lines, in which case it will still be flagged up. It won't be part of the main publication. So I think that there is a place for pay to play for the people that want to do that. But I also think that there's so much media coverage that you can get for free that, personally, especially if you haven't had much experience doing PR, focus on the stuff that you can get for free, because places like you know Cosmopolitan magazine, psychologies magazine, red Magazine, marie Claire, all of those they wouldn't charge you money Like the big, established, traditional kind of newspapers and magazines. They wouldn't ever charge you as long as you're offering them something of value. I mean, this is the other thing. If you've ever tried to get media coverage for your business and maybe someone has come back to you and said, oh, do you want to speak to our advertising department, that will be because you've not pitched something of value. So magazines, for example, yes, of course they run lots of adverts, so they do you know they do have an advertising department. If you want to bypass the advertising department and get that free publicity which, like I say, all of my clients get featured in these places for free.

Dina Behrman:

The way that you do it is by sharing value.

Dina Behrman:

So if you were to go to a traditional kind of magazine or newspaper, or even it happens a lot with local and regional press as well If you were to go to them and say, hey, like this is my business and I do this and do you want to write about my business, then they may well say go and take out an advert, because really you're just saying can you promote my business for me?

Dina Behrman:

But if you go to them and you share something of value so you share you know a really interesting story, or you share some really great experts, knowledge and insight and opinion then that changes the dynamic because they are actually receiving something really useful to them and as journalists, they are receiving something valuable that is going to make their job easier.

Dina Behrman:

So if they're writing an article and you're providing some expert commentary, or if you're writing a guest article, where you're actually writing the article yourself, that's really really valuable to them. So you're not just going to them and saying, promote my business, but you're actually offering something valuable, then there won't even be any question of having to pay, because they truly will value and, having worked as a journalist, you know, and even you know, when you're working as a podcast host and you have your own podcast, you need to fill those episodes every week, so you need guests and it's the same as a journalist. We need stories, we need experts, we need articles, you know, so you can help those journalists to make their jobs easier and then it's a fair exchange. You provide them with this incredible value and they will promote your business for you as a byproduct of them featuring you.

Magdalena Hanah:

And you have made some excellent points. First of all being I did not know that magazines are now required to actually put that little disclaimer that this is a paid feature. This is such a great thing to know. To be quite fair, because I've seen multiple people buying out features, you know they're usually not in the main publications or the main stations. When it comes to TV, right, it's always like some local version or you can buy full package and stuff like that.

Dina Behrman:

And you'll see some smaller say like independent, maybe business magazines, and they're not run by big publishing companies and so they've chosen that business model which is their choice, that they want to charge people to feature in their magazines. And then that would have to be your. You'd have to take a call and say is it going to be worth it for me?

Magdalena Hanah:

I wanted to ask because there's also those like magazines are popping up, especially online magazines, right, they are not necessarily published like in real life, they're not physical magazines, and there's plenty of them. That's like you said, people reaching out to you. I mean, let's put aside the scams and the obvious ones with the, you know, without a profile picture, and I'm going to feature you and whatever it is. I actually find it quite offensive because I was meant to be featured u 30 under 30 30 50u up until 50under 50. So what age am I a? amI huge like wave of those things, especially on Instagram. So, yeah, talking about those little magazines, you didn't mention that it's up to your own discretion to choose those things. I wanted to ask what would you say other things that people should look out for in order to keep themselves safe and to choose the right feature, because you know some of those little magazines they're fantastic, they're great.

Magdalena Hanah:

If you're not yet at this stage, or with your message, let's say, or with your offer that you would, you know, deem yourself as ready for Forbes, for example, right, this is a massive publication. You need to really, you know, show for it to be there. This is at least my personal opinion. But those little magazines are a great way to showcase yourself with the authority a at same time. But the fact of the matter is a lot of them kind of overpromise of what they are able to deliver, and they do come with a price as well. So I have people coming to me as clients as well, thinking like, hey, mcdonough, I've paid for this. I really put my heart and soul into this article, this feature or whatever it was, and I got nothing for it. You didn't mention it in the beginning. What should people look out for in order to keep themselves safe and to make the right decisions with their PR strategy?

Dina Behrman:

So, personally, I think there is just so much that you can get for free, and it doesn't need to be the really, really big publications so you can get featured quite easily and quite quickly in your local newspaper, your local radio station, you know, a regional TV program, something like that.

Dina Behrman:

That's a really good place to start. There are also tons of online blogs and online publications that are looking for contributors. So if you're someone who enjoys writing, you can write a guest article, write a guest blog post, and you can submit it without having to pay anything and you can start being published and once you start doing it, it gives you that confidence boost that, okay, I can do this. So maybe look for an online publication or an online blog or a blogging platform, that is, if you've not had any experience, you know a little bit smaller, but somewhere that is actively looking for contributors, and you can do those ones that don't charge. There are also different online publications or websites where they will do kind of profile style pieces or they'll do kind of Q and A's and, again, a lot of them don't charge.

Dina Behrman:

So I just think there's so much that you can get for free and then, once you've had a couple of pieces of publicity in slightly smaller publications. You can actually take them and you can pitch to, say, a more mid-sized publication and you can show them those articles. Or if it's interviews, you can show them those interviews and it gives them a way to see something tangible. So you have something tangible if you've done and it doesn't mean that you have to do like loads and loads of articles for smaller publications If you have maybe two or three, you can then share them when you're pitching somewhere bigger and you can say, oh, here's an article that I wrote previously. So I wrote an article on Entrepreneur Magazine and when I did that they actually asked to see a couple of other articles that.

Dina Behrman:

I'd written. I think they wanted to see two other articles that I'd written, and so I had two articles that were from a smaller, less well-known online publication, and so I was able to share that with them and then that kind of just gave them that reassurance that okay, she's done this before and she's okay at writing, and then I was able to secure that major opportunity with them. So I would say there's so much you can get for free and just look at if you were offered something and you weren't sure about it. Look at the types of results that maybe other people have had, because you can get really big results from publicity. But the way that I do with my clients is that we look at getting consistent major coverage, because I had one of my clients, for example, she got 1,500 new leads from one article. So it was one online article and it just was one of those topics that really struck a nerve. It was an online publication for Millennial Women and she was a coach working with Millennial Women, so she was able to talk about a topic that really spoke to those particular readers and she got 1,500 new leads, which was just amazing, and this again, it's earned media. She didn't pay anything for it.

Dina Behrman:

Now, not every single major opportunity is gonna bring you 1,500 new leads. I mean, I wish that it would, but it doesn't. But I want people to know that that is possible. And if you focus on getting consistent major coverage and consistent publicity, then you give yourself the, you open yourself up to the possibility of having one of those ones where you get 1,500 leads. And then the next one that she did, she maybe got like 50 new followers or something like that. And then the next one that she did, she got like a new client. And then the next one that she did, she got some new people into her Facebook group. And so each one is doing something positive for your business. Like every time you get featured in the press, it's working in your favor. It's doing something positive because it's building up your profile, it's creating a buzz around your business, it is positioning you as an expert, it's giving you that credibility piece.

Dina Behrman:

And then you will have the ones where you get, like you know one of my clients.

Dina Behrman:

She had a piece in a regional newspaper actually she's based in Scotland and she's a hypnotherapist and she signed up 10 clients from that one article and again it was something that just really like spoke to those particular readers and so she had the kind of instant result of 10 new clients signing up.

Dina Behrman:

And then I've had other clients where you know they don't necessarily get a client straight away, but they get like a hundred new subscribers or something and then maybe some of them turn into clients down the line. So I think that there's so much publicity that you can get for free. And I also think that if you know what's possible and you know that there is the possibility to have new subscribers, new leads, new clients, if you do it on a consistent basis, if you, I guess, sign up for one of these things and you're paying the money and you're kind of putting everything onto that one opportunity, you want that one opportunity to kind of bring you the results, that feels like a lot of pressure, whereas if you know that, okay, I'm gonna pitch for this podcast and then next month I'm gonna write this article and then the month after I'm gonna do a guest blog post, and each of those has the potential to really bring you great results in your business.

Magdalena Hanah:

Hmm, hmm, yeah, and what I wanted to say, because I can already hear the people you know listening in thinking what if I'm not a writer, what if I'm not this, what if I'm not that? Just to make a point of what you just said, which was brilliant and, like you mentioned before, it works for you in the background because it's usually very well positioned and it stays there forever. So, absolutely. But, like you just said yourself, the results, they differ. It might not be the case that you get multiple clients, but it might be the case that you get many followers or subscribers or people visiting your website. So it also depends on how you position, let's say, an article, what sort of links you put in there, so backlinks w aswec as them.

Magdalena Hanah:

What is the purpose of the article, what is the purpose of your feature in the magazine? So there's a lot of moving parts to it. So, speaking of those people that will say what if I'm not a writer, we need to talk about the fact that there are different types of PR strategies. Right, you don't have to be doing everything, and I wanted you to talk a little bit about different types of PR strategies. And how do you know what sort of PR strategy is assigned to a specific client that's coming to you, let's say you know, with different talents, or different skills.

Dina Behrman:

Yeah. So I mean, I personally only want to do things in my business that feel aligned, and so I would never say, well, you have to go and write all these articles, like, honestly, you get to do PR in the way that works for you. And you know, sometimes I have clients and they just really love talking. They're just not really into writing or they struggle with their writing, and so, if that's the case, you can go and get yourself featured on podcasts, you can go and get yourself interviewed on radio shows and that's going to be the way that feels the best for you to get out there and share your message. And then on the flip side, I have clients where they just don't really like the idea of doing, say, tv or radio. Also, it's about fitting it into your schedule as well. So sometimes clients, they really enjoy writing and it's something that they can, you know, they know they can fit that into their day, and so then they're going to focus on doing, you know, writing a guest article, guest blog post, or providing sort of guest commentary or expert commentary rather for an article, and they don't necessarily want to do like TV or radio or podcasts. So it's really looking at what works for your individual personality Also, what works for your kind of circumstances and your schedule as well.

Dina Behrman:

So years ago I used to do some stuff with my local BBC radio show and it would all be done in the studio. So I would have to drive to the studio and I really enjoyed it. But obviously that's only going to work if you can. You know, if it's something where you have to be in a studio and you need to travel, so you need to take things like that into account. But because there are so many different major opportunities out there, you really do get to choose to do PR in a way that works for you.

Dina Behrman:

And then in terms of the writing as well, there's ways around it. You can sometimes people find it easier to speak rather than write, so you could dictate an article and use a transcription service to write it up. There's all different ways around it. A lot of people as business owners. They have content already ready that they can repurpose as well, so you don't always have to reinvent the wheel. You don't always have to be starting completely from scratch. Maybe look at some of the content you've already got and you could repurpose a really great newsletter, like an email newsletter that you write. You could take that and turn that into an article. Or you could take like a Facebook live video that you've done and, like I say, get that transcribed and then turn that into like a thought leadership piece or something like that.

Magdalena Hanah:

These are fantastic tips. I mean, like I'm going to rewatch it afterwards and I'm going to make notes Very, very, very valuable. So, okay, let's say now we're flipping it. Let's say that somebody is very good at writing and because PR really thrives on stories, right, one of the ways which you personally do and help people with is actually having a book published, and first thing that I wanted to speak about is why having a book builds authority, in your opinion, if you would like to share that. And specifically, you are proposing to people a multi-author book which is based on, obviously, people's stories. So how do people go about that? Why does it build authority? And my next question is going to be how can people keep the momentum after being in a multi-author book?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, so the books were something that I started offering about two years ago. I did a certification to learn all about publishing and I felt like it was just such a great way to compliment the PR work that I was already doing, because, essentially, when I'm working with clients and I'm helping them with PR, the two main things that we focus on are sharing their story and sharing their expertise, and those are the things that I would always recommend that you focus on sharing in the press. And so, when it came to doing the books, I realized that that was a way that I could help clients to again share their story and share their expertise and to do it in a way that was in more depth than they would maybe be able to do with a PR opportunity and looking at a whole other platform. So having something that's out there on Amazon, which is basically a big search engine in itself, so that people can find them via Amazon, and having a book, I think is a massive credibility booster. It's a really, really effective way to position you as an expert and it works alongside PR really well.

Dina Behrman:

So the books that I do are multi-author books, like you said, where we have a number of different experts and they're each sharing a chapter on a particular theme. So each book that we do has a different theme. And then we have different business owners who are experts in different areas or they work in different niches and they will write a chapter and I sort of take them through the step-by-step process of how to structure their chapter and what to include in it. But we're always looking at them sharing their story and their expertise so they can share some of their journey and some of their experiences and then they can share some of their tips and advice for the readers as well.

Dina Behrman:

And after the book comes out, I have a team that will work on getting the book published and doing a bestseller campaign and putting it into the appropriate categories on Amazon, and then we help with how to market the book and how to promote the book.

Dina Behrman:

But I always encourage the authors to focus on using the book to get media coverage as well, so you can use the fact that you are a published author when you're pitching the press, because that's very appealing to journalists. So if you have written a book yourself or been a part of a multi-author book, then you really want to make sure that you are using your author status when you are pitching for a podcast or pitching for any kind of media opportunity, and then the PR can help you to also sell more copies of your book. So it works kind of hand in hand that the book helps you to get more PR and the PR helps you to sell more copies of the book. So you want to be focusing on capitalizing on the book and capitalizing on the PR opportunities that are there as well.

Magdalena Hanah:

And this is great because it's not about the case of just being an author of a multi-author book. It's about that little coin that you have right now because you write after you write it that, hey, I am a published author. So I think a lot of people, a lot of times people, are actually scared of going moreauthors' books a moreauthors' book first of all because there's so many companies offering that service right now. Second of all, it is multiple people in one book. So it's a case of how do I stand out, how am I, you know, memorable? How do I stay in a reader's mind or how do I utilize that? Like I said that, what happens after the book is published? How do I kind of write on the popularity of the book itself? And I think that little aspect is really, really connected with how you tell your story. So if you could just tell, when you work with your authors, what are the best tips of formulating a story to become unforgettable.

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, I think this is such a great question because, you know, the storytelling has always really been at the heart of everything that I do, and I think it's such an important part of any kind of marketing for an entrepreneur. And lots of people that I speak to they worry that they like they don't have a story or they worry that their story isn't interesting enough or exciting enough. And I think in the online space, we see a lot of these big, like rags to riches stories and I think often people will be like but I don't have a story like that, or, you know, my story isn't as dramatic as that. And so my first point to keep in mind would be that everyone has a story, like everyone. And I spoke to someone the other day and she was like, well, you know, not everyone has a story. I was like, no, everyone has a story, because your story is literally like your life journey is your story.

Dina Behrman:

And so if you think about what's led you to the point that you are at now, that is your story. And so, as a business owner, how, like, what is that path that you've been down that has led you to this point in your business right now? That's your story. And so, if you want to start thinking about, like, what could my story be, what could I share in my story, then, you know, really start thinking about how did your business come to be, like, what was the path that led you to be doing what you do? And you can start thinking about things like you know, why do you do what you do, what's your mission, what's your big, why, what's your passion, and all of those things are really going to help you with your story. But, yeah, I just really emphasise that if anyone's worried that they don't have a story or that their story isn't interesting enough, it doesn't need to be super dramatic to be a very powerful story, because it's a very important story. Because, like I say, we all have the journeys that we've been on and it's just how you tell that story that helps you to connect with the readers and that is what you're looking for when it comes to sharing your story.

Dina Behrman:

It's that connection. Because if you're thinking about using your book to ultimately, yes, inspire people and create a positive impact, but also to grow your business, then the connection part's really important, because we need to connect with our potential clients, because that's how they feel ready to buy from us, and so when you share your story, it really does create a deeper emotional connection. And that's what we're looking for, and that's part of the purpose for doing this is to share something that is really going to help people to get to know you on a deeper level, to understand what makes you tick, to feel inspired, to feel motivated, to feel engaged I mean really just to feel. Perhaps that's what it comes down to. We want to instill emotion in people, because that's when they will take those actions to actually sign up with you and to work with you. People make their purchasing decisions more often than not based on their emotions.

Magdalena Hanah:

Absolutely, and I think we've done a beautiful full circle in terms of what is PR and what it isn't right, because it's so deeply connected with a story and the reason for the story is that, creating that connection between you and the listener, the reader, the watcher, and for those listening on a podcast, you should actually get yourself to YouTube, because, as Dina was speaking about all of this, I was snodding my head continuously, like that little doggy at the back window, like they used to make, like those little puppies that you used to put on the back window. That's how I looked like, basically. But, yeah, we could talk about story in so many ways, so many facets, which we don't have time to date. But, yeah, I do agree, and having a great story is not only going to be valuable for big projects like a book. Right, you're going to use it in your interviews, in your appearances in regards to your business, to drive a point home about something that you do, something that is connected with your offer.

Magdalena Hanah:

So, yeah, I think this is the inherent, like the puzzle, the missing puzzle piece almost, of what PR is and what it isn't, and because people do buy based on the connection, people do buy based on those emotions. I think that's what kind of makes it a little bit different than marketing. Is that connection part right? It's more towards, it's leaning towards branding more and messaging more rather than just a visibility part right.

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, yeah. And, like you say, once you have figured out what your story is, you can use that when you're applying for podcasts. You can use that when you're pitching to journalists. You can use it in your marketing, on your sales pages. It's such a useful thing to have and that's also where PR gets easier, because once you start pitching the press, you can just take those pictures and tweak them and you're not always having to start from scratch, because you know what your story is, you know what your expert topics are and you can just take them and you know, send them out and tweak them and adapt them and use them in so many different places.

Magdalena Hanah:

Absolutely so. I hope all of you listening to us you kind of realize, you know, as Dina said and I'm really really happy you said that because that you don't need to have a near-death experience or you don't need to, you know, brush shoulders with death or whatever, have an epiphany or an awakening or whatever people are expecting right now in the story. Sometimes the most normal everyday stories can be much more powerful than those near-death experiences, all those epiphanies, all those enlightened moments, right.

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, yeah, I think that it can be really off-putting to think that, oh, I need to have this big, dramatic story, and it's honestly not the case, and I've worked with so many different business owners from so many different walks of life and they all have had stories that they've been able to share, because they've been able to talk about, you know, like I say, their journeys and their experiences and things like that.

Magdalena Hanah:

And it's great because, you know, I think putting that out there it kind of goes to show that, because I don't know if you've actually met people like that, but I have seen people online that try to manufacture those stories to make them more dramatic, to make them more out there, right, and it kind of it works backwards, right, it works in a very negative way towards the people that are telling those stories.

Magdalena Hanah:

So, yeah, great, having a good story, knowing how to tell it, does not mean that it needs to be super dramatic, right, and this relieves a lot of pressure. So, if people want to know more,D Dina, about your services, your offers, because you do quite a lot of things, you not only help people with the PR strategy, but you can also help, like I said, with publishing, with multi-author book and then the campaign that goes with it, because I think a lot of times we have those offerings like, yeah, be in a book, pay yourself to be in a multi-author book, but then advertise it yourself. There you go. So could you speak a little bit more about your services? How can people find you, how they can connect with you?

Magdalena Hanah:

I know you also have a free guide on how to pitch press, which I think is going to be super valuable because, like you said, yes, journalists are continuously looking for people to help them out, to make their life easier. You just need to know how to do it. So could you please tell all about your offerings and how can people contact you?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah.

Dina Behrman:

So the best way to connect with me and to find out more about what I do is to go to my website, DinaBehrman dot com . com, and I have a range of different services for people who want to have my support to learn how to do their own PR.

Dina Behrman:

So I have a PR program that takes you through, step by step, how to do your own PR, and then I also have a done with you PR package where I work with you one to one and I will write your media pitches for you and I will help you know where to find the journalist contact details and everything like that.

Dina Behrman:

So I have a free PR checklist, which is a really great starting point and that's available to download from my website and that really helps you to understand what's involved in the PR process. So that's a really good starting point. It takes you through step by step. You know how to understand what's actually involved in the PR process in terms of getting pitching the press and getting featured, and then if anyone's looking for that support from someone who's been there and done it and I've worked with so many different clients over the years and PR is available to everyone. That's what I want you to understand, if you're ever thinking, but maybe it's not. For me, honestly, it is, and so I would love to support you if you are looking for that guidance on how to get featured in the press.

Magdalena Hanah:

And you work with coaches, consultants and general service providers online, or is there a specific group of people that you're looking for?

Dina Behrman:

Yeah, absolutely coaches, consultants and service based business owners. So I love working with people who. They are the face of their brand and they want to be seen as the go to expert in their fields.

Magdalena Hanah:

Fantastic. So personal branders, list you're interested in exploring more about Dina or seeing what she's got to offer, at least exploring the stuff that she has or she's done. All the links, as usual, are going to be in the description of this episode on YouTube, as well as the description of the episode on all of your favorite podcast platform. Podcast platforms why am I not able to speak today? Podcast platforms wherever you get your podcast, so I'll to the description. Get in touch with Dina. Do you have any social media where you actually what you where interact with people or where you're usually?

Dina Behrman:

at yeah, so I'm across Facebook, instagram, linkedin you can just search for my name and I am always more than happy to connect with people and chat about all things visibility and publicity.

Magdalena Hanah:

Fantastic. So, like I said, all the links are going to be provided in the description. So get yourself there, check Dina out. I think PR is super, super important, but you also need a person that can guide you, like I said, through those avenues and and the shady and the good parts and how to formulate your story so many aspects to it and I can. I can say with my own journey that PR has been one of the best things that I kind of jumped on. So, yeah, absolutely, guys, if you are thinking of exploring or exploding your visibility, of getting yourself out there, being perceived as an authority in your field, this is the best way to do it.

Magdalena Hanah:

Alrighty, now, I wanted to thank you so much. This has been so informative. Like I said, I will get back to it, I will make the notes, but I do hope we stay in touch, because this, this has been brilliant, this has been enlightening and it's just a short span of time. You have said so many interesting things that I didn't know about I'm actually going to start paying attention to. So thank you so much once again.

Dina Behrman:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been so nice to chat to you. Likewise pleasure.

Magdalena Hanah:

Alright, guys, thank you. This was another episode of habits of influence. Thank you for showing up again. Or, if you watched for the first time, don't forget to subscribe and ring that notification bell, because I'm going to have much, much, much more interesting guests, such as Dina. We only feature people that we know actually have the expertise they have walked the walk. They are not just pretending to do something. They have a multitude of expertise and years of experience behind them.

Magdalena Hanah:

So if you don't want to miss any other episode, subscribe like, share it with anybody who might need it. Do you know any other people that might need PR or media or would like to know a little bit more about it? Remember to share this episode so that more people can benefit, and I'm going to be seeing you, guys, in the next episode. You know, after the changes, we are going to be less frequent, but I'm still keeping the quality. I'm still going to come in here and talk about all sites of business, not just the pretty ones, not just the flashy ones, not just the ones that, for the longest time, we've been made to believe are the only sides of business. So thank you again, guys. I'm going to see you in my next one and thank you, dina, thanks again.

Dina Behrman:

Thank you.

People on this episode

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Magdalena Hanah

Host
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Ian Manheimer

Co-host